03/06/1997 08:20 AM House STA

 HJR 2 - REPEAL OF REGULATIONS BY LEGISLATURE                                
                                                                               
 The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs             
 Standing Committee was HJR 2, Proposing an amendment to the                   
 Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to repeal of                     
 regulations by the legislature.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on Representative Norman Rokeberg, sponsor of              
 HJR 2, to present the resolution.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1157                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG, Alaska State Legislature, pointed             
 out to the committee members that Chair James was a co-sponsor of             
 the resolution.  This issue had been before the body before; it was           
 passed by the Nineteen Alaska State Legislature.  The proposed                
 amendment would allow the legislature to write the constitutional             
 equilibrium within the balance of the separation of powers.  It was           
 important that the resolution was adopted to present it to the                
 voters for their approval.  The resolution merely stated that the             
 legislature could by a joint resolution repeal a regulation adopted           
 by the state.  "It speaks to the enormous amount of lawmaking                 
 that's going on by the Administration."  And, in my opinion, it was           
 the purview and the constitutional responsibility of the                      
 legislature to make laws and to set policies in the state.  The               
 letter in opposition from the Department of Law, dated February 28,           
 1997, made the case for the resolution.  He cited the court case of           
 State of Alaska v. Live Volunteers whereby it was decided that the          
 legislature did not have the right to annul regulations by a                  
 concurrent resolution in both houses.  The decision generated the             
 efforts to amend the constitution.  The votes failed because of a             
 lack of public support and the failure to educate the public                  
 properly regarding the roles of the legislature and the executive             
 branch.  The Alaska State Government was a very strong executive              
 government as a result of the constitutional model developments of            
 the 1940's and 1950's in the United States.  He reiterated, the               
 resolution was intended to save money by providing that the                   
 Administration followed the intent of the legislature.  There were            
 a number of letters of support included in the bill package.  He              
 continued to further obtain examples of support to enable the                 
 movement of the bill forward.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1358                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked Representative Rokeberg to explain             
 how the resolution would work if it was adopted?                              
                                                                               
 Number 1372                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained many times the legislature passed           
 a bill that required the adoption of regulations by the                       
 Administration to implement the law.  The Administration                      
 promulgated the regulations under the Administrative Procedure Act            
 (APA).  The APA required only one public hearing, but many times              
 there was more than one hearing because of public comments.  The              
 legislature continued to look at that process and this resolution             
 was one element in providing a balance.                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG further explained that many times the                 
 Administration missed the intent of the legislature when adopting             
 regulations.  He cited the Airport Leasing Bill that passed last              
 year.  The regulations did not meet the intent of the legislation.            
 He testified at public hearing on the regulations himself.                    
 Progress had been made, but the last draft had yet to be seen.                
 This was only one example of many.  The last election was held in             
 1986, of which, 9,500 regulations had been drafted and promulgated            
 since that time.  The attorney general said it was the                        
 constitutional right of the Governor to have the ability to veto.             
 The Governor would have total control over anything that the                  
 legislature did with his veto power if the legislature did not have           
 the super majority to override the veto.  "The Governor in essence            
 could write law outside the body of this legislature and with the             
 veto power control the law making process of the state, in                    
 essence."  That was the balance and equilibrium that he was talking           
 about.  The legislature, as the proper law making body, needed to             
 be able to override by nullification improper and unintended                  
 regulations.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1584                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that he had a bill in the Nineteenth           
 Alaska State Legislature relating to this issue.  In addition, he             
 believed philosophically that the legislature would not succeed in            
 getting the public to support the resolution.  "For the simple                
 reason that the public would perceive this as the legislature                 
 trying to give itself more power and the public does not wish to              
 give any form of government more power."  He did intend to support            
 Representative Rokeberg 100 percent, however.                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY further explained that he philosophically                
 believed in repealing the right that the legislature gave to the              
 Governor to make laws.  In addition, the courts upset the balance             
 because it said that the legislature could delegate its power to              
 make laws, but it could not reserve to itself the right to veto               
 laws.  He asked Representative Rokeberg, if the legislature failed            
 in this regard, would he support using the authority of the                   
 legislature to take away the authority from the Governor the right            
 to make laws?                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1656                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied he understood the intent of                   
 Representative Vezey.  However, his bill was a shot gun approach              
 rather than a rifle approach.  He would be amenable to a rifle                
 approach and not a shot gun approach by destroying all regulations.           
                                                                               
 Number 1691                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied, "So, you favor the right of the                 
 Governor to make law?"                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied, "No, I do not."  Like any                    
 legislator he would like to further review the intentions of                  
 Representative Vezey's bill.                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked Representative Rokeberg if he was                  
 familiar with his bill that he was talking about?                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied, "No, not specifically."                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY explained that his bill said if the                      
 Administration wanted law it would have to present it to the                  
 legislature for ratification for his signature.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied, in other words, the ratification             
 of any regulations promulgated.                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied the legislature did that by doing away           
 with the regulation process and did it through the statutory                  
 process.  The regulations became the statutes.                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied he would support that.                        
 Number 1745                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked Representative Rokeberg if he had              
 any dialogue with the Department of Transportation regarding the              
 airfield issue raised earlier?  And, how did it pan out?                      
                                                                               
 Number 1757                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied he did have dialogue, of which,               
 some of it panned out and some of it did not.  That was the issue -           
 a clash of intentions.  Many times legislation was remedial in                
 form; it was intended to straighten out regulatory moras by giving            
 statutory guidance to the department.  Nevertheless, it was too               
 complex of an issue so some regulations were needed.  He was mostly           
 concerned with the end-product, however.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1809                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained she spoke this morning on the subject of                
 regulating the regulators.  This was a stressful issue.  She                  
 appreciated Representative Rokeberg for bringing this issue                   
 forward.  The support of the public was needed to reform the                  
 regulations.  The issue needed to be attacked on every side.  In              
 response to Representative Vezey's concern of doing away with the             
 Administrative Procedure Act, she did not find any legislator that            
 was willing to put extra effort into the statutory construction so            
 that the regulations were not needed.  She saw legislators willing            
 to include a caveat that said "the department shall write                     
 regulations to implement this chapter", for example, giving away              
 the responsibility.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1930                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated, in response to the concern of                 
 Representative Vezey and the passage of the resolution, that he               
 wanted to move the resolution through both bodies this year to give           
 the supporters the opportunity to organize.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1982                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS moved that HJR 2 move from the committee               
 with the attached fiscal note(s) and individual recommendations.              
                                                                               
 Number 2006                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY objected for the purpose of taking a roll call           
 vote.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called for a roll call vote.  Representatives James,              
 Hodgins, Ivan and Vezey voted in favor of the motion.                         
 Representatives Berkowitz and Elton were not present for the vote.            
 House Joint Resolution 2 was so moved from the House State Affairs            
 Standing Committee.